Oral History Interview with Robert Bracken

This oral history is provided free by the Archives of the Interlochen Center for the Arts (ARTICA). It has been accepted for inclusion in Interlochen’s audio archive by an authorized administrator of Interlochen Center for the Arts. For more information, please contact archives@interlochen.org.

00:00:00    IAN JONES
Today is October 21st, 2024. This is an oral history interview with Robert Bracken, conducted by Ian Jones on the campus of Interlochen Center for the Arts. Thank you for sharing your story with us, Robert.

00:00:11    ROBERT BRACKEN
Oh you're welcome.

00:00:12    IAN JONES
So would you please tell us your name, your connection to Interlochen, the years you attended?

00:00:18    ROBERT BRACKEN
So my name is Robert Bracken. I attended what was then National Music Camp, and that was the summer of '73. And then I attended the Academy from '73 through '75. I, in essence, never left after camp.

00:00:34    IAN JONES
What did you study when you were here?

00:00:36    ROBERT BRACKEN
I was a flute major. Piano-Voice minor voice became something I wanted to explore here, and I obviously had the opportunity to do so. And I still sing today, so something that has lasted throughout my life. I won't claim the piano or the flute as much anymore, but they're still there.

00:00:58    IAN JONES
Great. Well, tell me, how did you first come to Interlochen? What drew you here? How did you find us? How did you find out about it? And what was that experience like coming here for the first time?

00:01:08    ROBERT BRACKEN
Well, I think anyone that grew up in the Midwest knew that Interlochen was the pinnacle. It was the ultimate. I don't know that we knew so much about the Academy, but it was at that point, National Music Camp, and that was always a goal. And I understand it still happens today, actually, that band directors and choir directors push people to attend in the summer. I mean, I don't think they even think about the Academy hoping that you're going to come back to, you know, support them- doesn't always happen. But it just was a known fact. And I guess you had to want to do it. Scholarships, I don't think were as prevalent back then. So your parents had to agree to it. They had to be able to find a way to send you. But that really is in a synopsis how this happened. Everybody knew about it. Anybody that was a musician wanted to go to Interlochen, and I was lucky enough to be able to do that.

00:02:09    IAN JONES
How did you make that transition from Camp to the Academy?

00:02:13    ROBERT BRACKEN
Oh, that's a story. I don't know the whole story, but obviously someone in Admissions found something out. And I just remember kind of being escorted over to main campus because I was in what was then High School Boys across the road and shown the campus and kind of talked into applying to go to the Academy. I don't remember the details. That was a long time ago, but I think I probably told my parents on the phone to kind of prep them that this was going to go on. And then, lo and behold, my parents had already come to campus and knew the campus well and also knew the the quality of the education. And in fact, I remember that my parents told me that someone that they had known or knew, their daughter was going to Academy, and they called and they checked to find out what the quality of the education might be. And with that being said, and then being convinced that it was fine, I was allowed to come to the Academy. So I didn't have the dramatic end of camp, Les Préludes meltdown like so many people do, and rightly so. After having consulted with the institution and engagement for about five years. I guess it was, and doing all the alumni events, you really did come to understand why that was the case, because these were people that were fish out of water. They didn't belong, or maybe that's a little harsh, but they didn't feel comfortable in their own environment. And as one of the alums told me a long time ago, and I've always remembered this, Melissa in New York City, she actually does vocal coaching. She coaches all the Broadway stars. And she said, "Before I went to Interlochen, I was a black sheep. And I came to Interlochen and I became white and part of the flock." And it's true. I mean, that is true because kids feel out of water, and that meltdown took place knowing that they would have to go back and kind of not fit back in again where they'd spent at that point, eight weeks now, three, six, two, whatever they spend as a completely, I guess, quote unquote normal person in their eyes. So I never had that. I didn't have to have the meltdown. I just quietly went back for about four weeks. The Academy started much later than it does now and just was on a high for four weeks and came back to campus. And in fact, my roommate was one of my cabin mates from the summer.

00:05:03    IAN JONES
That's nice. That's very nice.

00:05:04    ROBERT BRACKEN
It worked out very well because I didn't have- I did have, I don't want to call it homesickness. I had a little bit of times that I definitely miss my sister and I guess I missed, you know, it was new. It was- it was new and it was old because the Academy and the Camp do have a lot of similarities. So I was used to so much. But then and again, I came in as a junior, so I was thrust into a situation where, yes, a lot of juniors and seniors are a lot of two year kids back then, but there are also kids that had already been here two years, and so you just had to find your way a little bit.

00:05:41    IAN JONES
You've talked a little bit about coming here and fitting in, and how that does seem to happen here for folks kind of find their people. Right. What do you think is in the sauce? What makes that happen? What is it? Is it the place? Is it the people? Is it the community? What makes that happen?

00:05:59    ROBERT BRACKEN
Every single thing you mentioned. And I think you know anybody that is any type of artist, whether it be creative writing, an actor, a musician, you look at things a little bit differently than others might. And because you have that little window into the world, not everybody's looking at the same window, right? But when you come here, they're looking at the same window. They really get you. They understand where you're coming from, and you're either strong enough to deal with that. If you're not in the bubble, as we'll call it, because it is a bubble, you either deal with that if you're not here or you don't deal with it. And if you're not dealing with it, it is a gift to be able to come here and be with like minded people. And certainly the staff and the faculty give you the ability to feed into that, to improve yourself, to really find your place in the world. It is magical. I mean that we kind of say these things and everybody says the same, and we say them over and over and but it really is the truth. It's the definition of a magical place.

00:07:12    IAN JONES
You were just talking about faculty and people. Are there particular faculty in your mind from your time, either at Camp or the Academy that you remember that you think of, that had an influence on your life?

00:07:26    ROBERT BRACKEN
You would think, maybe I would talk to you about someone that's musical, since I was in the band and also participated at some points in the orchestra. But no, it wasn't that. It was actually somebody that helped me achieved a goal in life I didn't even know I had. And that was Dorothy Rutsky, the French teacher. Keep in mind that in the '70s the Academy was small. My graduating class was right around 100. A little bit over 100. So our classes were quite small, so I was in a French class with six people. That allowed me to do three years of French in one year. Three years of high school French. I already was in love with the language, but I really fell in love with the language. And what did I go on to do? Go to Boston University. Major in French. Eventually changed that major to PR, and had a minor in French and business and worked for Air France for 25 years. And that started here because of Dorothy Rutsky, who allowed me to work beyond what you might do in a normal high school class to really immerse myself. And, you know, where we say, oh, Interlochen changed my life. Well, it kind of did, because it really did give me that foundation that I needed.

00:08:44    IAN JONES
Are there other parts of the Interlochen experience that affected your personal journey, or professional journey or your personal journey?

00:08:52    ROBERT BRACKEN
Yes, because parenting back then was quite different. Quite different than today. We didn't know the term helicopter parent or hyper helicopter parent. Really, our parents dropped us off on campus and we obviously would communicate with them, but we were on our own. We had to learn to live. I would say the majority of us didn't know how to do laundry, didn't really know how to, not necessarily balance a checkbook, but keep track of our monies. And you learn those things very, very quickly. You had to learn to interact with people that had very different personalities than you. Of course, we all had a similarity, but that doesn't mean that everybody was the same. So when people talk about going to college and being disappointed because they had all these experiences here and there, a freshman in college. And what happens? People are just doing that, I think, and this is just a guess, maybe? But we were kind of thrust into that immediately. And as I said, you talked to your parents maybe once a week. You maybe saw them at Thanksgiving. But our Christmas break was a month, and it started about the middle of December. So not everybody went home for Thanksgiving, especially if they lived quite a bit away. And you just simply didn't see your parents for 3 to 4 months. So that- you grew up quickly, is what I'm saying. Maybe emotionally I would say yes emotionally as well. You had to- you had to deal with yourself. You had to deal with a lot of things. And back then, life was different. There weren't all the wonderful counselors and things that we have today on campus. So you learn to live life. It's as simple as that and you grow up quickly.

00:10:50    IAN JONES
You talked a little bit about the people. You talked about an instructor who had a particular influence on your life. Did you develop any lifelong friendships here at Interlochen?

00:10:59    ROBERT BRACKEN
Oh, that's a, that's a given. Boy, this weekend being the class ambassador. And so the landmark party being where we were staying at Green Lake, it's as if the door opens and people come in and you just start talking. There is nothing- there's no hesitation whatsoever. Some, obviously a lot closer. I'll give you an example of Hillary Burchuk. For instance, we see each other in New York. We go to New York on the average about every 2 to 3 months from the West Coast, and Hillary often meets us from Washington and we go to theater together and we spend time together. In fact, we went to London last year together with her to go to theater. Wendy Woodside, who is in Chicago, comes and visits us, stays at the house. These are people that I'm very close to and very much in touch with, but gosh. Reed Anderson, this weekend we sat and talked. We hadn't talked like that probably since we graduated, even though I've seen him at reunions and things. We shared a lot of things, and it's different when you live together with people and you really are in a situation. Because remember, during that time period we did not go off campus. We had one, well, you could go to church and you would go on the bus and come right back, and then you could also go into town, as we called it, Monday afternoons, because we didn't have class on Mondays. We were Tuesday through Saturday. The bus would pick you up. You had to go in full uniform. You had to go with your name badge, but other than that, we were stuck here with everybody, and that's where you really learned to react. And of course, you made very close friendships that last until today.

00:12:59    IAN JONES
You talked about the teachers, talked about students. Let's talk about the place. Do you have a favorite place here on campus? If so, what is it and why?

00:13:08    ROBERT BRACKEN
I always make a trip over to, and I'm going to use incorrect vernacular because it's still in my mind that it's boys side, High School Boys. I always make a trip over to sit by the lake over there, just to get a different idea. I certainly walk into Kresge. I certainly go to The Bowl, which to the bowl for a camper is a tremendous deal. I have no idea why this is, except that the building is so beautiful. I'm so pulled to what used to be a theater, which is now the Dance Building, and I find dance very interesting. Anyway, I love dance, and I just think that's such a magical place to go into that building and look out over the lake and you actually see whether they're dancers, dancing or not, you see them there. So I would say that's probably my favorite place on campus.

00:14:00    IAN JONES
That's a lovely thought. Whether they're there or not, you see them there.

00:14:03    ROBERT BRACKEN
You do.

00:14:05    IAN JONES
I mean, from your time here, you mentioned you just mentioned The Bowl as a critical part of Camp. At your time at Camp or Academy, is there a particular project or performance or activity even, that sticks in your mind as a.. Well, that was something special that could only happen here. You know.

00:14:22    ROBERT BRACKEN
I don't know about only happening here, but something that's in my mind, which is very prevalent today, which we didn't have, was Corson and Corson opened the dedicating- or dedicated ceremony for the opening was.. don't remember exactly when, but it was in my senior year towards the end, and I was chosen to be.. I think it was an usher or something, but I remember it was a big honor. You got to be in part of the whole Corson thing, and obviously that's a very, very important venue on campus today. So I think I didn't realize at the time what an honor it was to have been able to do that. But I do realize that today.

00:15:08    IAN JONES
Is there something from your time at Interlochen that had maybe something that you learned could be from your teachers, could be from your cabin mates or others? Is there something that's been a particularly memorable thing? Not memorable is something that's had a significant impact on your life?

00:15:24    ROBERT BRACKEN
Actually, I'm thinking of two things. One would be just becoming a stronger person that I think we were taught that here. That was the MO, that we needed to be strong in whatever category or era that you were working with. So, in other words, of course you had to be strong to be a musician or an actor. You had to have a tough skin, which we didn't all have. And that's why some of us decided instead of really making our art something that we loved, making it into something that became more of a challenge that we even began maybe to not like as much into just everyday working in a job, whatever it might be. Have your conviction, be strong in your will- in a good way. Don't be negative, don't be nasty. But go for the goal, go for the end. And that was taught very strongly in whatever class, whatever art you were in. And the other thing is, maybe this is answering a question that might come up later. I'm not sure, but I had the privilege of working under Thor Johnson and he would come on campus as a guest conductor. I don't remember the situation now. I do know that at one point we were working on my flute embouchure and I actually pulled myself out of band. I was the principal flautist in the band, and it was like a six week period or something. Byron Hanson gave the okay, and we were working on my embouchure, and I'm sure Thor Johnson was aware of it, and there probably was more to it than that. I probably shared something with him that I was feeling not confident or whatever, and I just found this recently. I still have a personal letter that he wrote to me. It's about a page and a half, maybe about being- taking your conviction and taking it on to the next place. Do not be upset. Do not let challenges overcome you. You have to overcome those challenges. And so those two things are what come to mind right away. Why me? I really don't know. I must have shared something with him. But, you know, that's part of Interlochen. That's what the- I think one of the wonderful things is. It was small at that point and people did care, and they took time to work with you and to make you the best person you could be. That was what it was about.

00:17:57    IAN JONES
And to make something that you could have taken a completely different, to make that okay.

00:18:01    ROBERT BRACKEN
Absolutely.

00:18:02    IAN JONES
Right. You're doing what you need to do to make this work for you.

00:18:05    ROBERT BRACKEN
Yes.

00:18:06    IAN JONES
Wow. That's great. That was good advice from him. Let me ask you. Okay. You have the opportunity to talk to students today. And you started to do this a little bit, which is why I'm asking now, what advice would you give to current Interlochen students? Future Interlochen students?

00:18:20    ROBERT BRACKEN
Gosh, I was lucky enough to go to the panel of recently in 90s, not so recently now I guess, but and also into the early 2000 actors. And I heard them say the same thing, that I would say. Two different things, and I've heard it often. You know, we always hear Interlochen changed my life. Well, this is probably the second thing you hear most often, and it's that you have to be confident in your craft and you have to also live your life. You have to be happy with yourself. And that doesn't mean that you don't value what you're doing. But they're going to be tough times, and you've got to make sure that, okay, so I didn't get this part. I wasn't able to to play in the ensemble I wanted to play in, but I was able to pick strawberries today. You know, you've got to do things that fulfill your entire life. And we get very focused. Even all of us can focus, but the kids are focused. When you're a junior or senior, what are you thinking about? Where am I going? What am I going to do? What am I doing? The things in life I want to do, even when they're that young. Especially here. I think we think about that even a little bit more. And that is exactly what I would say. They- they really hit the nail on the head when they talked to the kids about this, and they listened because I sat and I always loved to watch their faces and see what they're taking in. They were enamored and in awe of these people, not that far from their age, a lot of them.

00:20:02    IAN JONES
They're doing the thing.

00:20:03    ROBERT BRACKEN
They're doing their thing.

00:20:04    IAN JONES
And sharing how they're doing it.

00:20:06    ROBERT BRACKEN
There were four of them, and two out of the four really pushed on this issue. I have to take advantage of my life, and I have to live my life and be happy with it. I can't let myself get drawn down in the craziness of the world and the craziness of auditions and things like this. I just got to pick myself up and go on and make sure that I am loving every single day.

00:20:33    IAN JONES
Do you think Interlochen does that as a whole. I mean, for everyone, those those kind of broader themes of having a meaningful life, a purposeful life. Do you think that happened for you? Do you think that's happening now?

00:20:46    ROBERT BRACKEN
I'm not sure about now. I would assume, because I can't imagine it any other way. And I do see the grads. And when I go to events and I meet people that have graduated recently and I certainly, you know, meet other people as well that are much older. I feel that it definitely happened with us. That was a definite point of importance that was placed for us. Yes, you need to love what you're doing and love your life. And as you get older, you realize that you know you don't know well, you don't even know when you're young, but you don't think about it that way. But you do think about it now. I don't know how much time I really have. Every day is very precious and every moment is precious, and you have to take advantage of those.

00:21:36    IAN JONES
Well, let me go back a little bit and ask you about your favorite memory. If you're looking back all your time at Camp and the Academy, do you have a favorite memory, a favorite story from your time at Interlochen?

00:21:50    ROBERT BRACKEN
It probably was that Thor Johnson was probably one of my absolute life impacting moments. Gosh. I mean, other than that, just so many memories. Craziness that doesn't even go on today because the weather's changed. We had snow from probably about mid-November. I remember my year of graduation in '75. We still had snow on the ground and we had huge, huge snow banks that you would walk through many feet above you. And you looked all you did- You looked all over the place. But the thing that I remember too, that I thought was- what's important to me because I'm a sun and fun kind of person, the sun would shine and the reflection off the snow. And those are just, you know, weather, physical things, it's not like that today at all. The snow is not like that up here anymore. But that's a a visual memory, a visceral memory that just comes to mind right away. But if you ask me that specific question, I think it was the Thor Johnson letter and feeling that I was important, that I was important enough to take a moment for a very busy person to take time to care about me. And I think that's why that's such a vivid, solid memory.

00:23:15    IAN JONES
You performed in the band, performed in the orchestra. You sang. You are a patron of the arts. You see theater, you travel to see it. It's important to you. Why does art matter in the world today? Why are the arts even important?

00:23:31    ROBERT BRACKEN
I think it is. Things are so complicated today. I know we don't like to talk about that being the case, because we think we have progressed and we have. I mean, life is wonderful, there's no question about it. But just everyday living now is much more complicated than it used to be. And the arts give you a moment, a few moments, a couple of hours to just simply escape and live in the fantasy world. Forget all the stresses and weights that are on your shoulder, that on your mind, and you see people creating. And that, also, to me is very important. I feel the sparkle, the oomph that comes from inside of them when they're presenting their art to you. And that helps me once again escape. And, you know, sometimes I am Jonathan Groff up on that stage because I'm just hearing him and seeing him, and I'm putting myself inside his body. And, you know, that was a maybe a dream, not of everybody. But I think certainly everybody here either wanted to be in an orchestra or be on Broadway. What else was there in the world at that point in our small little minds that we were thinking? Although I have to say, I have to insert that, I do think our minds were a lot broader and we had a lot more experience than maybe a lot of other people, but still, we were living in the bubble. So I think that's the reason it's artistry. If you appreciate the work that goes behind it, you know, you know the artistry, you feel the passion coming from that person. It pulls you in and takes you away, even if for only 30 minutes.

00:25:17    IAN JONES
Yeah, it's interesting to me because it's that- you talked about kind of feeding off that creativity and that energy, whether you're a musician or whether you're a dancer or whether you are a visual artist, it's still giving you voice, right? Your art gives you voice and the opportunity to say what you need to say.

00:25:32    ROBERT BRACKEN
Good way to put it.

00:25:33    IAN JONES
Good. You put it- You put it that way. So that's just what I'm getting out of what you said, was that it applies to everyone. So we're coming up on the 100th anniversary of Interlochen in 2028. And as much as we're looking back, we're looking ahead too. As you look ahead, what do you hope for Interlochen in the next hundred years?

00:25:54    ROBERT BRACKEN
I hope that it continues on the same route that it is today, because no matter how many times people complain that we don't see the knickers anymore, that a certain tree is removed, or that a certain practice hut has been updated, we have to move forward. We have to stay with the times. The requirements today in the arts field and also, I guess in the corporate world, when we really go down to the nitty gritty and think about it, are constantly changing, are constantly bringing more and more things that we have to think about and the way that we have to work within in the work world. And if we don't stay up to date, which we are, that being evidenced by so many things, including new majors, new buildings, new experiences that the students are given, then we might as well go back and shrivel up and die because that is what would happen. We have to also think of Interlochen as a- it's a corporate entity and it has to be, because if you don't have that side of the equation, you don't have the money to run, you don't have the finances in order to make improvements. And as much as we might like to think, oh, it was wonderful back then, and why this and why that? And believe me, as a class rep, I hear that all the time. And I certainly hear it during reunions. I try to bring people into the present and say, I want you to talk to a parent, think about what their because the parents are very important in this equation. Think about what they are trying to achieve, or at least give their children the capability and the experience to achieve. What do they want out of the situation? So I think when Trey speaks about something that we've always wanted, which is to make sure that every person that wants to come to Interlochen has the ability to do so, whether they have the financial means or not. That touches people's hearts. And I think that is the future. That is what we need, and that's how we're going to move forward.

00:28:16    IAN JONES
What else would you like to share?

00:28:18    ROBERT BRACKEN
Gosh, I can't think of anything. Those questions kind of brought it in.

00:28:22    IAN JONES
Well, but you kind of- you kind of would answer some of them in advance. I wouldn't even ask it and you'd answer it.

00:28:27    ROBERT BRACKEN
So that's the only thing I can think of, is what would I like to share? I'd like to share that it's important to give back. And it doesn't matter how you give or what you give. That's maybe a little simplistic because it does matter. I mean, you know, the more money that the institution can receive. But let's say you don't have the ability to do that. I always had a very important discussion with Jeff Kimpton during my times of consulting. And I said, you have a certain person, actually two people, but a certain person in LA who has since passed, who was an alum of the University Division, David Neubauer. He was up front every time there was something in Southern California. He would get in that car, he would be manning the booth. Never ask anything for it. Of course, he was a volunteer. That is an opportunity. You can volunteer. That's also giving back. And I used to say to Jeff, I want you to monetize that, Jeff Kimpton. I want you to think about how much you would have to pay an employee to do what he does without ever asking for anything in return. And also, don't think that your dollar here and your dollar there doesn't count because it does count. Think how many people giving $1 what that adds up to. If you can give a dollar a month, just drink one less Starbucks. Okay. And take that money and give it in a monthly gift. It will cement Interlochen being around forever.

00:30:09    IAN JONES
That's what we like. Thank you.

00:30:11    ROBERT BRACKEN
I think that's it.

00:30:12    IAN JONES
You summed it up. That was great. That's why I took the pause there. I wanted to let that land fully. Thank you. Thank you for doing this. I really appreciate it.

00:30:23    ROBERT BRACKEN
You're welcome.